From: mike99 (mike99@lascruces.com)
Date: Sun Dec 15 2002 - 20:43:40 MST
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sl4@sl4.org [mailto:owner-sl4@sl4.org]On Behalf Of Ben
> Goertzel
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 7:29 PM
> To: sl4@sl4.org
> Subject: RE: Reality Theory
>
> Michael wrote:
> > Matter must still exist at the lowest level of implementation.
...
> > Can I prove this claim? No. I cannot prove this claim any more
> than I can
> > prove that other minds exist. I am not a solipsist even though
> disproving
> > solipsism is not logically possible.
Ben:
> This seems to me like an excessive, unnecessary leap of faith....
>
> Assuming that other minds exist makes life simpler....
>
> Assuming that apparent physical reality is still going to be here
> 5 seconds
> from now, makes life simpler....
>
> I make these assumptions provisionally, knowing they're provisional and
> knowing that I'm making them in order to simplify the universe to
> the level
> that my paltry human mind/brain can deal with it.
>
> But, assuming that if there is a hierarchy of sims, it necessarily bottoms
> out in a "physical reality" (rather than never bottoming out, or being
> circularly created in some way, for instance) -- how the heck
> does this make
> life any easier? It doesn't, for me. For me, it is a needless
> assumption.
Mike:
It certainly makes life simpler for me. How can assuming a closed circle of
causality make life simpler?
Assuming a fundamental physical substrate not only simplifies things (at
least for me) but it also indicates a general program of investigation. If
that physical substrate can be probed deeply and its structure understood,
then it becomes at least theoretically possible that the substrate can be
manipulated to our ultimate advantage.
Which brings me to another proposition:
He who controls the physical substrate controls the world.
But suppose, for the sake of this argument, that we are embedded deeply in a
hierarchy of sims in which we only believe that we have reached the physical
substrate, when in fact we have merely reached down a few levels in a much
larger hierarchy. What then? Well, so long as the apparent physical
substrate sim-level is causally senior to the higher levels in which we
apparently live, then we still gain a superior (albeit not ultimate) power
to predict and control.
Ben:
> Maybe this is nothing more than a temperamental difference between us,
> though.... To each his own subjectively-constructed illusory solidity, I
> suppose... ;-)
Mike:
Thanks, Ben -- you've proven my point about the mathematician's penchant for
idealism!
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