Re: Another Take on the Fermi Paradox

From: Gordon Worley (
Date: Tue Dec 24 2002 - 22:14:42 MST

On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 04:59 PM, Samantha Atkins wrote:

> Gordon Worley wrote:
>> If we are in a simulation, the whole thing is probably hopeless.
> How so? It would seem to depend on the nature of the sim and what is
> possible within it, and perhaps beyond it, to us.

I feel like I am very real. While I have not tried myself (though I
probably should), Eliezer has asked to be let out and no answer came.
This leads me to believe that we are not living in a Friendly

If we are living in a simulation, then an Unfriendly Singularity
occurred, in which case I wouldn't put to much faith in being still
around when the simulation ends. So, in my opinion, if this is a
simulation, we're out of luck.

>> If we've already been contacted, human ideas of morality are 180
>> degrees off the mark.
> Again, how so? I can think of many things you might have had in mind
> but I am not sure what you were thinking of.

Human morality points in the direction of altruism (human morality
itself is not altruism, but approximates it). Altruism, as we
understand it, means helping people. As an example, the Prime
Directive is very selfish, since it's essentially preserving societies
as they are when they could help them live the good life like everyone
in the Federation for the sake of anthropological study. If the Prime
Directive is moral, our understanding of altruism is completely off the

>> Sure, it's depressing that civilizations might blow themselves up all
>> of the time, but that doesn't make it less likely to be true.
> Another possibility is that civilizations that don't blow themselves
> up act a good bit differently after Singularity than most of our idas
> about how we would act. For all I know that might be quite localized
> in more inward turning or busy with some fascinating problem that
> doesn't require or support widespread travel. The Fermi Paradox
> hinges on alleged civilizations not acting like we believe such a
> civilization owuld act.

This is still what I said before: we're too far away from other
Singularities to notice if they exist.

I think a very likely possibility is that a Singularity has happened
far away in the Universe and the probes being sent to help the rest of
the Universe haven't reached us yet.

Gordon Worley                          "Man will become better when                 you show him what he is like."                                --Anton Chekhov
PGP:  0xBBD3B003

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