Re: physics of uploading minds

From: fudley (
Date: Tue Nov 01 2005 - 09:29:28 MST

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 "Heartland" <>

> Unfortunately, mind transfers are usually debated in
> terms of brain structure and preservation of continuity
> of consciousness. In reality these concepts are somewhat marginal

What an extraordinary thing to say! I would humbly suggest that
subjective continuity of consciousness is absolutely positively 100% the
ONLY thing that matters.

>What really matters, IMO, is a "mind-producing activity
> of matter in space-time,"

And I would also humbly suggest that the term “space – time” be used
only when the words “time” and “place” are insufficient.

> consciousness which is merely a subset of
> "mind-producing activity of matter

Merely?! If my consciousness is preserved who cares about the rest.
And “description of the activity” would be more accurate.

> in space-time."

Translation: At a time and place.

> Just because people sometimes lose consciousness
> doesn't mean their brains stop working.

When the brain of a surgery patients is cooled way down and they are
under very deep anesthesia there is still some minimal metabolism going
on in the neurons, but nothing you wouldn’t find in a liver or skin
cell; and there is virtually no communication between neurons; in other
words no thought, conscious or unconscious.

> I can be present without being conscious.

At that moment you not only have no consciousness you don’t even have
reflexes, and are no more intelligent that a house plant. Are you
absolutely certain you really want to claim that is you?

> So yes, I agree that consciousness isn't a relevant criterion


> by which we should judge whether the true essence of
> "I am" was transferred during uploading.

I can’t say much about your “presence” theory because I can’t make heads
or tails of it, but it sound like if you’re right then you could already
be dead; I could have uploaded you last night when you were sleeping,
duplicated you consciousness exactly but bungled when attempting to
duplicate “presence”, whatever that is. The result is that you are just
as conscious as you ever were, just as intelligent and just as happy and
you have all your memories, but you’re dead.

My question is this: If you are correct then why should you care if
you’re dead or not, and why should anyone care about this mysterious and
mystical “presence” that just sounds like a soul dressed up in its best
Sunday go to meeting words like “Space Time Continuum”.

John K Clark

-- - Does exactly what it says on the tin

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Jul 17 2013 - 04:00:53 MDT