Re[2]: Simulation argument in the NY Times

From: Алексей Турчин (
Date: Sat Aug 18 2007 - 15:44:49 MDT

I think that another feature of simulation yet not mentioned here is that it allows miracles harder simulation allows little miracles, but soft one allows many. Simalation that has a lot of miracles is less 'real' and so is less 'simulation'.

So search for the miracles could prove that we are in the simulation. But their absence can''t prove the opposite.

In fact our own brain have enough brainpower to create so high cvality simulations that we can''t distinguish them from reality - I mean common dreams. Only in rare lucid dream I could understand there I am. Thus simulation may be created not by huge computer, but by augmented genetically human with very high capability to see dreams.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Mahoney <>
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Simulation argument in the NY Times

> --- Norman Noman <> wrote:
> > > Biases like these which are built into the brain override logic. Logic
> > > tells
> > > you that the brain is a computer. Logic tells you that it does not
> > > require a
> > > consciousness to function. Logic tells you there is no test to
> > > distinguish
> > > between an actual consciousness and a belief in consciousness. But your
> > > bias
> > > says "I exist". This conflict leads to bizarre conclusions. For example,
> > > uploading. If you make an identical copy of yourself and then the
> > > original
> > > dies, then your consciousness transfers to the copy. But what if you
> > > don't
> > > die? Which of you is "you"?
> >
> >
> > Oh, what does this have to do with ANYTHING, lloyd?
> Actually, I wrote that. The question was about limitations on what we can
> think, so I gave an example.
> > So yes, there is a powerful intelligence controlling your thought. It is
> > > evolution. The information content of all the DNA on earth far exceeds
> > > that
> > > of your brain. Logic says your brain is a computer. But if you actually
> > > believed it, your DNA would not propagate.
> >
> >
> > Evolution is not an intelligence, and there is no evolved mental block
> > stopping us from believing our brains are computers. It's not something
> > which would come up in the ancestral environment, and it's not something
> > which even particularly influences reproductive success today. As a matter
> > of fact I DO believe my brain is a computer.
> Evolution is not intelligent? How do you define intelligence? Evolution
> created humans out of a mix of simple chemicals. I would say that is pretty
> smart.
> Suppose you wanted to exterminate all life on earth. Who do you think would
> win, you or evolution?
> > The kind of difficulty you are talking about, in correctly framing
> > philosophical problems, is something we can overcome with sufficient time
> > and clarity. It is far from being an absolute mental block.
> Of course. I too believe that my brain is a computer. I also believe that I
> am conscious. These two beliefs result in a contradiction, so I know that at
> least one of them must be wrong.
> -- Matt Mahoney,

Посетите мой Живой Журнал - и узнайте то, что я думаю прямо сейчас - и ещё то, что хотел сказать вам, но не успел :)

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