From: Thomas McCabe (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Fri Nov 23 2007 - 18:33:57 MST
> > Here's the link again:
> > http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/terminal-values.html
> Truly - I must follow my own advice and point out contradictions in
> Elizier's writing to contribute to his work as I expect it from others
> myself. And although I have done so on numerous occasions and his posts are
> rather long at times, I seldom got a response from him how the
> contradictions pointed out by me could be resolved from his point of view.
It's "Eliezer", gosh darn it, "Eliezer".
> I read his post again and shall point out some contradictions and potential
> improvements once more - but frankly it is not fun not to get a response on
> how to resolve the contradiction. Here we go:
> "Outcomes don't lead to Outcomes, only Actions lead to Outcomes."
> Action: work -> Outcome: life
> According to the above statement life does not lead to work. This is a
Where do you see a contradiction? A contradiction is not just a false
statement, or a statement you disagree with; to show a contradiction,
you must point out where Eliezer (or anyone else) said both A and ~A.
Also note that we're talking about utilities here, not physical
> "[...] in this formalism, actions lead directly to outcomes with no
> intervening events."
> Action: define! action = solution -> execute action -> outcome: solution
> This is very convenient. Like catching all lions in a desert by building a
> 3x3 meter cage and defining the outside as inside. You can do that - but
> what is achieved by it? A laugh of a forgiving audience. But we are not here
> to make fun of ourselves - at least not primarily.
> "Being ignorant of your own values may not always be fun, but at least it's
> not boring"
> So ignorance is bliss? I personally do not agree that that is the case.
Ignorance may not be a good thing, but that doesn't mean you can't
have any fun with it. Particularly other people's ignorance. :)
> way I see it, ignorance is the set of false implications based on chosen
Er, what? Ignorance is a high entropy probability distribution over
possible states. Mathematical statements, formally derived from
axioms, do not have a probability distribution: they're either true or
> Ignorance is caused either by uncertainty in regards to a cause or
> an effect or rationalized contradictions. Ignorant people are unaware of the
> consequences of their actions and the harm it causes themselves as well as
It's nonsensical to try and label some people as "ignorant" and others
as "not ignorant". Human knowledge is so vast that any one person
cannot internalize more than a tiny fraction of it. Ignorant of what?
Transhumanism? FAI theory? Rationality? Russian pop culture?
> The idiom 'ignorance is bliss' can thus be interpreted to mean that people
> unaware of their actions causing self destruction will see no reason to
> change what they are doing. Personally, I prefer knowing my values.
> Or are surprises fun? A surprise is something you you do not expect. You are
> unexpectedly hit by a car. That's not fun...
You're mangling the argument. "Surprises are fun" is not logically
equivalent to "all surprises will always be fun all the time". That's
not how the English language works.
> I think I demonstrated the willingness to review, interpret and understand
> the work of others. Can I get the favor of pointing out contradictions in my
> work returned now?
(sigh) Please Google "contradiction" and find out what the word means.
If I proclaim that the Moon is made of green cheese, this is not a
contradiction, because I have not *also* asserted that the Moon is not
made of green cheese. Yet people would be foolish if they believed me.
> Here is the link again:
> Please do not get me wrong - I think he is a brilliant writer and I have a
> lot of respect for him and science in general. But I respect critical
> rational discourse even more. Further I do not merely contradict by playing
> advocatus diaboli. No. I developed my own model that provides a better
> understanding. Please contradict it and I will work harder to improve it
> further. Or understand it - recognize its value and move forward to find and
> solve the next contradiction.
> Many thanks,
> Stefan Pernar
> 3-E-101 Silver Maple Garden
> #6 Cai Hong Road, Da Shan Zi
> Chao Yang District
> 100015 Beijing
> P.R. CHINA
> Mobil: +86 1391 009 1931
> Skype: Stefan.Pernar
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Jul 17 2013 - 04:01:01 MDT